this site functions of soviet system? well the soviet union was not very ideal

it was a dictatorship. do you guys LIKE dictatorships? would you like to be run by a dictator?

this site has frequent elections so that if the mod is at fault he will be replaced. it is very representative and much more efficient.


also, thank you for posting in the correct place

The Soviet Union was conquered by Stalin in his pursuit of the left opposition to his bureaucratic rule but that doesn't mean that the soviet system prior to his purging was not democratic and efficient.

Nations all over were rushing to learn how to set up a proper soviet system because of its superior organizational power.

Plus, we have EDUCATED discussion here. So learn your history before you pop out with accusations and claims such as this

calinis wrote:

it was a dictatorship. do you guys LIKE dictatorships? would you like to be run by a dictator?

The US is not a democracy its a plutocracy/oligarchy - the US gov although elected is controlled by the elite corporate class. Democrcay means 'rule' of the majority as under 'true' direct democracy in ancient Athens. Democracy functions from the bottem up - not the top down, socialism is grassroots democracy.

The fact that the decision making proccess is controlled by an elite minority in the US highlights its un-democratic nature. Socialism is direct democarcy ie - 'all' political and economic decisions are made directlly by the community.

calinis wrote:

it was a dictatorship. do you guys LIKE dictatorships? would you like to be run by a dictator?

also, adding onto what shabazz said, you have to know that the soviet system existed prior to the soviet union, and actually sprang up naturally before even lenin gave notice to it with his famous "power to the soviets" quote.

a soviet is just a name for a workers council. it is a system of appointed representatives who are given limited power in administration to help keep order, who are able to be retracted by vote early, and were put up for election frequently.

(correct me if i am wrong here)

still not very socialist like, isnt it such that true socialist states dont have authority? because that completely contradict the basis of the ideology.

and shavazz freeman: lenin was a dictator, he was not elected democratically and he had absolute power and killed everyone in opposition. the cheka, like its successer, helped create a totalitarianist regime. and even if lenin wasn't a dictator (which he was), the system inevitably led to corruption. so the soviet union = FAIL

in communism there is no state, the is still democratically elected officials

Lenin and Trotsky were the leaders of the bloody CIVIL WAR in which many were killed but the bourgeois press calls this a slaughter of the opposition. In actuality, DURING WAR, the red army defeated the 14 imperialist nations that accompanied the white army which fought for capitalist counter revolution. The Cheka was placed into action STRICTLY DURING the civil war when the petty bourgeois peasants refused to feed the starving masses without making profit. Had the Cheka not acted, many many more would have starved to death because of petty capitalists. After the Civil war ended, lenin abolished the cheka.

The system did not lead to it's destruction, it was the fact that the small proletariat in the USSR was nearly destroyed along with 90% of the industrialized means of production which gave rise to the petty bourgeois kulaks in accordance with the failure of the germans to seize state power, which would have propelled the USSR centuries ahead all over. Such were the material conditions that gave birth to a deformed bureaucracy that inadvertently steered the USSR to counterrevolution by departing from Marxism and entering stalinist dogma of socialism in one country and two-stage revolution

i personally agree that by the end, lenin was a dictator. however, there is no arguing that he made many positive contributions to the revolutionary movement. there is also no arguing that he killed any opposition, even those that might've worked in his favor if he had let them.

he did not, however, intend for the powers he had used to continue to be exercised in a dictatorial manner such as that. stalin continued this gross overuse of power against his will and expanded on it.

he was elected by the party. he follows the belief of democratic centralism, which, i think, tends towards totalitarianism.

shabazz: don't forget that lenin made the "ultra-leftists" as he called them, his enemy. he felt this was for the good of the movement, but in reality, it would've been better to support them.

calinis wrote:

still not very socialist like, isnt it such that true socialist states dont have authority? because that completely contradict the basis of the ideology.

and shavazz freeman: lenin was a dictator, he was not elected democratically and he had absolute power and killed everyone in opposition. the cheka, like its successer, helped create a totalitarianist regime. and even if lenin wasn't a dictator (which he was), the system inevitably led to corruption. so the soviet union = FAIL

You do not adeer to our ideology and as such you will not recieve the benifits of our ideology. If you are a capitalist you have no place in the socialist sphere. Under communism un-repentant capitalists would have NO place within society. Untill you reject you antiquated notions of property and class relations we do not consider you an equal member of our sphere. We cannot consider you an equal member considering you believe in destroying the equal society we wish to build - our differences a irreconcileable.

nah the reason why it fails and leds to corruption was because you put too much faith into the government to control the economy. the government should NOT control the economy. corruption was evident in the soviet union even after stalin. thank god someone like gorbachev actually wanted reform. and thank god for the collapse of the soviet union.

calinis wrote:

nah the reason why it fails and leds to corruption was because you put too much faith into the government to control the economy. the government should NOT control the economy. corruption was evident in the soviet union even after stalin. thank god someone like gorbachev actually wanted reform. and thank god for the collapse of the soviet union.

and now you are rejecting material fact.

An obvious indicator that his conversation is finished.

inkus but i truly thought everyone was equal under socialism!!! you are contradicting the socialist thought process. why should certain people have no place in society? why should people who reject your inane revolutionary ideas not be treated like all the others? under socialism everyone is treated horribly, however you certain people WORSE. against socialism. in america everyone is treated equally, however.

actually what i said was actual fact and what you say is baseless soviet propaganda i win you lose

wait, maybe i can keep him going! =D

cal, think for a minute about what you just said.

for the last time:

THERE IS NO GOVERNMENT IN COMMUNISM! USSR ONLY CLAIMED TO BE A SOCIALIST STATE, NOT COMMUNIST! TRUE COMMUNISM HAS NEVER EXISTED!!!

that said....

of course! the government should not run the economy, the people should! through workers' councils, i.e. grass roots democracy, NOT the government!

a socialist state is supposed to encourage and spread this, while at the same time providing social safety nets.

also, because of gorbachev and the arms race....russia is now a third world country. yeah. good job capitalism *rolls eyes*

calinis wrote:

inkus but i truly thought everyone was equal under socialism!!! you are contradicting the socialist thought process. why should certain people have no place in society? why should people who reject your inane revolutionary ideas not be treated like all the others? under socialism everyone is treated horribly, however you certain people WORSE. against socialism. in america everyone is treated equally, however.

people willing to act as equals are treated as equals. if you don't want to, you will be exiled, because you will not do any good for your community.

in america, those born rich are royalty, and everyone else is simply a tool to be used by the rich.

Equality cannot be achieved while there are classes.

There are classes. You are a capitalist, we are of the proletariat.

Socialism is the transition TO an egalitarian society, which we have explained to you before. You aren't exchanging ideas, you are merely recycling the same ideas regardless of new information like a filthy religion.

You just illustrated the class antagonisms in society by saying everyone is treated equally in america.

Being a black male i have been held at gunpoint by the police for reading a book in a restaurant. They thought I had a gun and was about to rob the store. I had nothing but books in my bag.

Whereas you are probably a well off white kid that has never faced any adversity. It's no wonder you believe "we" are all equal

the economy should be fully controlled by the buisnesses with miniumual gov intervention oh yeah and the btw a government is essential without murderers and rapists will be running loose do you bloody want that??? oh yeah, turmoil for sure.

shabazz: LOL!!! minorites are treated better actually (ignore what i said before, hadn't tht of this) because of the stupid racist policies. yeah i'm white, but i'm not rich. my mum makes $9/hour, call that well-off???? i just dont blame the government.

its statistically proven that white males are given privileges over other groups in the u.s.

the people are there with power, and those that are murdering and raping will be separated from the rest of society.

the economy works better when planned, especially on a social scale, because it prevents businesses taking advantage of people.

no white people are treated inferior actually

well then you're just a white racist

how awesome is that eh?

how am i racist idiot

....just because a business exalts one guy or girl who is of a different race as an example of being "not racist" doesn't mean that they didn't deny a million people jobs based on ethnicity or sex, or that that person is ever likely to reach the point of real power -_-

you know what? white people should be treated on equal grounds as all others. want to know why? WE ARE ALL PEOPLE!!!

for now though, the places of power are corrupt, so there needs to be the forcing of intelligent people of all races and sexes into places of power so that they can actually hold some sway in society, because people ARE racist

either stay on topic or create a new topic about how america is racist towards white people.