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 Debate about whether or not we are free

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calinis
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:43 am

ha ha ridiculous how did the higher-ups get to their position? OMG ceos are so horrible nevermind that they actually WORKED for their poisition. shut up man, my mom makes $9/h and she's the only income and she has to take care of 3 kids. we can afford more than ramon noodles. this assures you that even those in the bottom have it so good in comparison to other countries. and starting a buisness is all about risks and so those that are successful should reap the rewards.

and dude the entire population is not against the war stop making things up. i know what its like in the US. it's like canada except better.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:49 am

Dont tell me to shut up. I when i was born i had to have major surgery immediately and again at 1 year of age. My father wasnt around becuase he was too busy in jail for beating up women to help so my mom had to get 3 jobs just to let us eat. I only saw her about an hour of the day because she was always at work. I didnt get a new pair of clothes until like 7th grade. And i lived in a trailer with no air or heater. So dont tell me about your misfortunes and how its ok.

So what you are saying is that if that guy fails his family and him deserve to live in poverty for the rest of his life and his debt will most likely fall onto his children?

Oh and what about your glorious american democracy you didnt say anything about that
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calinis
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:57 am

you have access to a computer so you have it better of than 99.9% of people living in third world countries. you have acess to a range of oppertunities to better yourself. damn it why the hell should it be the government's responsibilty to help you? it's an individual responsibility and you can make something out of yourself just like i can.

and alto bush didnt get the popular vote other presidents have so your vote does count.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:59 am

So you saying that if my mom couldnt have paid it would be ok that i would die?

Also your vote literally means nothing at all.
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Alek4a
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:00 pm

calinis wrote:
no workers are not forced to sell their labour, they could easily quit at any time. workers have rights anyways and anybody can escape their "slavery" by hardwork and innovations. you know, CEOs didnt just do nothing and exploit their labour to get to their position THEY WORKED FOR IT because, you know, under capitalism, there are no favourites. those with the right skills move ahead.
why did you put quotes over democracy? do you not know the def. of democracy? EVERYONE CAN VOTE IN AMERICA (with exceptions that are necessary) and its not in favour of the elite, because its people just like you and me. that's the beauty of america; it doesnt matter what race you are or what gender, people have risen from unfortunate cirumstances. so yes they do represent you they know what its like to be in your position.
and the whole sending people to jail simply for saying they hate the gov. is ridiculous beyond belief. afterall considering how liberal most colleges are, wouldnt the profs. get arrested for teaching progressive values? OMG WHY ARENT THEY IN JAIL? why isnt everyone in america conservative? why is the stupid kid in my english class not in jail for saying 911 was an inside job? why isnt this site shut down? why arent you guys in FBI custody for being a threat to national security? get real and stop manipulating facts to make it seem unfortunate. boo hoo go move to some country where dictatorship is evident. hey you like the soviet union soooo much why dont you go to belarus? i mean alto its not socialist it has dictatorship features in comparison to post soviet states emerging democracies. i reckon it would be good. be careful not to critisize the leader, eh? OR YOU CAN GO TO NORTH KOREA!!!!!!!! its even a BETTER dictatorship OMG or go to some african country with corrupt policies. why arent you gone yet? if you hate america dont live there. simple.

Oh yea sure we can vote, and then the electoral college can vote differently. And what are we voting for? We are voting for which corporate puppet will best fit our needs. How can you sit there and say capitilism is equal? I can drive ten minutes to the inner city and unlike you I DONT see drug dealers, crimminals and gang members. I see an oppressed working class who works harder than anyone else but gets the least pay. While your having fun with your dictionary you should try looking up equality because I garentue you that it won't say anything about the minority upper class riding on the shoulders of the oppressed. Not only that but how can you be so proud of the gov. When the american executive branch has no problem raping its own constitution. I don't know about you but the very thought makes me loose sleep at night.
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calinis
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:10 pm

Ruadhan:
your mom obviously did payfor it so she had the money? wow dude i thot you couldnt afford anything.

Alek4a:
dude you vote for electors who would represent the candiadate they vote for. yea i dont really like the system but at least you have some power. yea and corporate puppet eh/ because bill clinton and jimmy carter really represented our needs eh? wth do our "needs even mean? i never said capitalism is equal, i said it gives everyone equal oppertunities. most people in poverty created their own siutation or their parents but anyone can escape from it. adjustments have to be made to protect our security. most of the constitution is protected anyways.
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solpacvoicis
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:38 pm

if you actually asked around in the u.s., you'd see a majority of people against a war, who tried voting in the democrats in congress to force us out - then watched as the democrats did nothing

oh, wait, you can't ask around in the u.s., you live in FUCKING CANADA!
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:01 pm

calinis wrote:
Ruadhan:
your mom obviously did payfor it so she had the money? wow dude i thot you couldnt afford anything.

Alek4a:
dude you vote for electors who would represent the candiadate they vote for. yea i dont really like the system but at least you have some power. yea and corporate puppet eh/ because bill clinton and jimmy carter really represented our needs eh? wth do our "needs even mean? i never said capitalism is equal, i said it gives everyone equal oppertunities. most people in poverty created their own siutation or their parents but anyone can escape from it. adjustments have to be made to protect our security. most of the constitution is protected anyways.

thats not what i asked. if she didnt have the money would it have been ok that I died?
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Anarchist.Dagger
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:56 pm

Okay, i don't really know where the argument is at right now, so if i say something redundant then i apologize, and just ignore my post.

I don't know how you would determine whether "we", collectively, are free. I say this because we don't have the same interests and goals. I know i'm not free. I know this because for doing the things that i enjoy doing, i am under a constant threat of violence, and that is not freedom. And those who aspire to something that they cannot achieve due to their economic status are not free, because they are being inhibited by their relative poverty. So i'm not going to argue no one is free, but i'd say that the vast majority of people in this country, and around the world, are not truly free.
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Alek4a
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:30 pm

i agree with AD, there are certainly members of our society that are more or less free but i believe the majority of people's freedom to be inhibited financially and most those who ARE free are only free at the expense of others.
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calinis
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:50 pm

americans are pretty damn free if you ask me.and they're pretty ungrafeful too (in general)

that goes the same with others from developed countries (for the most part)
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Shabazz Freeman
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:03 am

what freedoms do we have?

list them
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calinis
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:10 am

freedom of speech (which you are clearly opposed to)

freedom of expression

freedom of religion (which you want to get rid of)

freedom of mobility (YOU CAN LEAVE IF YOU HATE THE COUNTRY!!!)

freedom to hold any political viewpoint regardless of how extreme

not to be unlawfully detained

the right to a free trial

the right to vote

the oppertunities neccessary to foster individual economic growth

equal rights for all people regardless of race, religion, gender, etc

and there is more i cant think right now
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Shabazz Freeman
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:19 am

calinis wrote:
freedom of speech (which you are clearly opposed to)
Democratic centralism

Quote :
freedom of expression
yep...especially in the media

Quote :
freedom of religion (which you want to get rid of)
religious and racial persecution of muslims
sex witch hunts against mormons

Quote :
freedom of mobility (YOU CAN LEAVE IF YOU HATE THE COUNTRY!!!)
unless you are moving to a country america hates (cuba)

Quote :
freedom to hold any political viewpoint regardless of how extreme
mumia abu jamal
sacco and vanzetti

Quote :
not to be unlawfully detained
patriot act

Quote :
the right to a free trial
90% of people end up getting a DA that just shoots for plea bargain instead of defense

Quote :
the right to vote
for our own oppressor

Quote :
the oppertunities neccessary to foster individual economic growth
not without money and access to the means of production-both of which are in the hands of the ruling class

Marxist definition of class(learn you a book about it)

Quote :
equal rights for all people regardless of race, religion, gender, etc
lol...
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solpacvoicis
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:21 am

people can be unlawfully detained as per the patriot act.

"free" trial? bullshit, people have to pay court fees, you mean a speedy and fair trial, and that's nearly impossible to guarantee lol

you can't leave the country if you got no money. duh.

its stupid to have a right for having a political belief if you aren't taught any political viewpoint except the political viewpoint of the united states.

right to vote is irrelevant, as your vote is insignificant

where is that a right?! where do you get this crap?! people are born into different levels of poverty! some are born into immensely rich families and can do whatever the fuck they want, and the majority are born into middle class and working class families - where your opportunities are severely limited when compared to the rich

most are born WITHOUT the ability to "foster individual economic growth" there are specific laws about selling things, where you are allowed to, what you can sell, etc, that make it harder on people - you want an example of people being able to just strike out no matter what and make a little cash, check out the cities in china, and their laws about starting a business (hint: there are none)

all the purported equality in the world doesn't make up for social inequality and racism/sexism
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calinis
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:34 am

going to respond to your posts in order you wrote them....

1. dont know what the hell that is
2.considering how liberal the media is, yea.
3. first of all muslims arent persecuted despite how they advocate terrorism. i wouldnt mind this being an exception. dont know about the second (wth?)
4. yet why would anyone want to move to cuba exactly? and you can move to any other country including north korea (lol)
5. mumia was a cop killer so wth? dont know the others, pretty sure they werent arested for holding extreme views. lol, theres a nazi party in america, which is evidence of no political discrimation (dont agree with it tho)
6. sometimes it is neccessary to detain someone who is a threat to the security even if there isnt enough evidence. its better to illegally detain someone who was innocent than not detain someone who was guilty. this is only in extreme situations.
7. the justice system in america allows criminals excessive rights (which is stupid)
8. not at all. who we vote for are people just like you and me so they have our best interests at heart.
9. false. anyone can get a job and from there get more money through education.
10. oh rite...minorities are treated superior...

and to solpacvois:

wth? its called HARD WORK thats how you get out of your situation. stop being so lazy. and also most people i know hate the united states. anti-american propoganda is evident. these people dont get arrested. so yeah if you can afford a computer, sell it and go bloodly move to north korea.
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solpacvoicis
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:18 am

replying cause i feel like it:

you are thirteen fucking years old, and live in canada, you want to know what its like in the u.s., then you come here.

hard work just doesn't cut it in a majority of situations.

okay, i'm done, should we delete this kid's posts or leave em?
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Shabazz Freeman
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:22 am

leave em

open a thread in Mow Crij about it...
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Alek4a
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:44 pm

solpacvoicis wrote:
replying cause i feel like it:

you are thirteen fucking years old, and live in canada, you want to know what its like in the u.s., then you come here.

hard work just doesn't cut it in a majority of situations.

okay, i'm done, should we delete this kid's posts or leave em?

yeah dude this kid is pissing em off somthing fierce
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Shabazz Freeman
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:48 pm

he's been permabanned
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