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 Debate about whether or not we are free

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Alek4a
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:35 pm

calinis wrote:
i didnt botherr reading it. seiously who oulf youw hand the pamthlets to? nobody is going to read that, they'll be like communism FAILS

"One CAN NOT achieve freedom without equal distribution of wealth."

yet you're able to say what you want. i dont know about you (you seem pretty free to me, at least you're not in NK0, but i cherish my freedom which is alive despite me being in the lower socioeconomic classes

there are million other faults that my eyes are staring at but i cant bother to correct it. but i can assure nobody is going to buy inyo that propoganda.

Well im sorry but i don't feel very free. just because i have freedom of speech doesnt meen i have liberty. i feel we as citizens are denied rights which are regaurded as "privileges"... i feel that i am denied my rights when the government lies to me. i feel that i am denied my rights when the government alows my family to slip into poverty when we are working 9 hour days for minimum wage.
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calinis
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:39 pm

i disagree you can say "i hate the government" and you wont be arrested. everyone has access to essentials for life regardless of income and even if the rights are reserved for the wealthy (which isnt predominate if true) people can become wealthy. i come from a low class but i will be rich when i get my phd
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:48 pm

No you can be arrested for saying i hate the government. and some people have been recently
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calinis
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:54 pm

lol thats ridiculus! and completely untrue. theres a ton of ppl who hate the govw where i live and they arent arrested
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solpacvoicis
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:56 pm

calinis wrote:
everyone has access to essentials for life regardless of income and even if the rights are reserved for the wealthy (which isnt predominate if true) people can become wealthy.

NO, not everyone has access to essentials for life, what the fuck do you think homeless people are? and those that STARVE TO DEATH in the united states?!?!

YES, a majority of rights are reserved for the wealthy - rights to property that is no longer theirs!

and its very, very rare for people to truly move up enough in station to pass that station on to the next generation as the upper class can do without every lifting a finger.

edit: i moved this post to polemics and debate


Last edited by solpacvoicis on Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Alek4a
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:57 pm

calinis wrote:
i disagree you can say "i hate the government" and you wont be arrested. everyone has access to essentials for life regardless of income and even if the rights are reserved for the wealthy (which isnt predominate if true) people can become wealthy. i come from a low class but i will be rich when i get my phd

hahaha your obviously not from to low of a class if you can afford college
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:59 pm

calinis wrote:
lol thats ridiculus! and completely untrue. theres a ton of ppl who hate the govw where i live and they arent arrested
you live in canada do you not?
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calinis
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:08 pm

i cant afford college actually
yesi live in canada but i used to live in the US and nooby ever gets arrested for saying they hate the gov
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:11 pm

then must have been extreamly young. it happens at ever peacefull protest
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calinis
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:14 pm

nope they were actually adults and thats dumb to arrest ppl 4 saying they hate the government its called freedom of speech

if taht were true all of you guys would be arressted for having this site and expressing your radical viewpoints why hasnt the FBI tracked your IP addresses

c'mon i'm waiting i'd laugh if that happened
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solpacvoicis
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:18 pm

uh, no, its when people start demonstrating against the government that the government starts to exercise its right to arrest people - we aren't demonstrating or planning concrete attacks on anything, so we aren't a real threat to them yet - also we aren't very well known

for all we know we are being tracked by the FBI "just in case", there have been several pacifist groups listed as "possible terrorist organizations" because they advocated a change of pace with the government
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:19 pm

I am absolutly positive that everyone on this site has been watched at some point for being radicly left. And let me ask you, have you ever heard of the red scare and McCarthy
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calinis
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:36 pm

i doubt anyone on here woukld be tracked down for expressing their views. planning revolution tactics is a different story. plus many of you are sympathizing with terrorists (stupid) so that would be a legit reason to arrest you and yet they arent which means freedom of speech/expression etc does exist

and ruadhan its not the cold war anymore, no big deal
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:40 pm

lol mccarthy happend before the cold war
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calinis
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:42 pm

not reallly it was during the 1950s that mccarthyism was prominent but thats completely irrelavent
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Alek4a
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:59 pm

calinis wrote:
i cant afford college actually
yesi live in canada but i used to live in the US and nooby ever gets arrested for saying they hate the gov

um... didnt you say you'r getting a PHD??? peacefull demonstraters are arrested regularlly...
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:50 pm

we are not free, we will not be free untill we bring the corporations to their knees.

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calinis
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:27 am

no not getting a phd now dude i'm only 13 i mean in the future
peaceful demostatrators are not arrested this isnt a dictatorship

here ill give you some definations:


"freedom: Liberty of the person from slavery, detention, or oppression."
yes because slavery exists in america afterall....o.O
oppression? like what? the right to express your opinion? you do realize the gov inst shustting this wesbite down?
you really need to experience some of the african dictatorships, north korea, countries in the middle east that fail

now dictatorship:
"Absolute or despotic control or power."
yes because this is clearly evident in america.....i mean there are no democratic elections in america, nor does the president have checks and balances, not have to get their decisions backed by congress and send all people who say they hate the president in jail...like I HATE BUSH damn it now the secret police is going to arrest me
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solpacvoicis
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:33 am

its called wage slavery dude lol workers are FORCED to sell their labor, they are the rented version of slaves

...yeah, peaceful demonstrators are arrested all the time, would you like me to find some links for you to read and pictures for you to look at?

dictatorships fail in general.

no, its impossible, in this "democracy" you are forced to choose from a select few to get power - all these people do the same. exact. thing. its elitist "democracy" - its bourgeois democracy

the president acts outside of his power all the time, congress just usually takes a vote AFTER THE FACT to decide if he was doing the right thing or not (not that it matters, because our "representatives" in congress don't represent the workers' interests)

they don't send ALL they send MANY of them to jail, and the rest they place on a special list to "watch just in case"
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Shabazz Freeman
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:18 pm

bolshevik wrote:
we are not free, we will not be free untill we bring the corporations to their knees.

corporations aren't the problem

capitalism is
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:27 pm

i thought that went with out saying

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solpacvoicis
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:43 pm

not when talking to calinis, my friend - with him, nothing goes without saying =/
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calinis
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:37 am

no workers are not forced to sell their labour, they could easily quit at any time. workers have rights anyways and anybody can escape their "slavery" by hardwork and innovations. you know, CEOs didnt just do nothing and exploit their labour to get to their position THEY WORKED FOR IT because, you know, under capitalism, there are no favourites. those with the right skills move ahead.
why did you put quotes over democracy? do you not know the def. of democracy? EVERYONE CAN VOTE IN AMERICA (with exceptions that are necessary) and its not in favour of the elite, because its people just like you and me. that's the beauty of america; it doesnt matter what race you are or what gender, people have risen from unfortunate cirumstances. so yes they do represent you they know what its like to be in your position.
and the whole sending people to jail simply for saying they hate the gov. is ridiculous beyond belief. afterall considering how liberal most colleges are, wouldnt the profs. get arrested for teaching progressive values? OMG WHY ARENT THEY IN JAIL? why isnt everyone in america conservative? why is the stupid kid in my english class not in jail for saying 911 was an inside job? why isnt this site shut down? why arent you guys in FBI custody for being a threat to national security? get real and stop manipulating facts to make it seem unfortunate. boo hoo go move to some country where dictatorship is evident. hey you like the soviet union soooo much why dont you go to belarus? i mean alto its not socialist it has dictatorship features in comparison to post soviet states emerging democracies. i reckon it would be good. be careful not to critisize the leader, eh? OR YOU CAN GO TO NORTH KOREA!!!!!!!! its even a BETTER dictatorship OMG or go to some african country with corrupt policies. why arent you gone yet? if you hate america dont live there. simple.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:58 am

First of America is not a democracy, it is a federal republic. Your vote literally means nothing at all. It is the place of the electoral college who actualy vote for the president. Does that sound fair? that only 400 or so people's vote actually count?

Next, there are 2 main rules for capitalism to work. 1. Your workers must be exploited so that the higher ups make the majority of the profit. 2. the higher ups must keep there manual laborers barley above the poverty line. That assures them that they cant quit because quitting means no food until they find a job. Its not exactly slavery its more like indentured servitude.

So what your saying is some guy who has a family and works at walmart for 8.45 and hour to just barely afford ramen noodles for his family should just quit his job and start his own business? What happens when the business is just taking off? Or what happens if it fails? Is it fair to his kids that they cant go to the doctor when they are sick? Is it fair to his kids that they cant eat anything except dollar menu shit from fast food restaurants?
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solpacvoicis
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PostSubject: Re: Debate about whether or not we are free   Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:11 am

dude i'm sick of you trying to say "america is great" etc, etc, "its really democratic!" "anyone can make it here!"

you fucking live in canada. you haven't fucking experienced america. you don't know what its like when you read your fucking history book and its filled with nothing but fucking one-dimensional lies! you don't know what its like to see your ENTIRE POPULATION against a fucking war - and the government IGNORES it and goes to the fucking war anyway!

sorry for using fuck in excess.

i hate dictatorship. i hate representational-two party politics too.

both are degrading.

oh! and don't fucking tell me to leave a country that you don't even fucking live in.

you make me sick.
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