Epoch of the Marxist Youth

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 Sovietism: A symbolic dilemma

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KGB5097
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PostSubject: Sovietism: A symbolic dilemma   Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:48 pm

This group is pretty cool thus far, I believe. People seem nice, knowledgeable... its always good to get in touch with Comrades, especially young ones who are just exploring the theory.

One thing that pesters me though... The forum is called 'Epoch of the Marxist Youth' while all the symbolism is Soviet. I'm critical of this because I don't think any of us wish to recreate the Soviet Union or its ideology. History showed us what happens to that specific form of Socialism.. this also seems to confuse nonmarxists who like 'soviet' to 'marxist' and 'communist' which is not correct at all.

Not that I dislike Soviet symbolism, I've got a full collection of republic flags on my walls actually... but for a forum its a bit confusing and factually incorrect.

So... is it just for the lulz or what?
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Sin
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PostSubject: Re: Sovietism: A symbolic dilemma   Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:10 pm

Have to agree with you there. From my browsing it seems alot of Trotskyists, and yet Soviet Union? I could of sworn, that Trotskyists were against that type of Socialism.

This should go into the suggestions section, i agree.

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solpacvoicis
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PostSubject: Re: Sovietism: A symbolic dilemma   Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:29 pm

trotskyists were for the soviet union to the very end, they just wanted to reform it so it became a true workers' state again - right shabazz? i may be wrong there...

also, i think its for the lolz and...it possibly attracts people knowledgeable enough to know what we are really talking about and those who have NO IDEA (lol calinis lol)...both nice groups of people =D

and this forum is intended for the studying and discussion amongst people already dedicated to leftism en general predominantly =]
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PostSubject: Re: Sovietism: A symbolic dilemma   Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:27 pm

Trotsky helped form the soviet union. The Soviet Union was on the right path until stalin came in. Also the soviet union should be defended for being a workers state which is critical in the formation of socialism. You have to remember that they were being invaded by 14 imperialist nations during its creation
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PostSubject: Re: Sovietism: A symbolic dilemma   Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:53 pm

Their origins were noble I agree, but their mistakes cannot be ignored.
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Sin
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PostSubject: Re: Sovietism: A symbolic dilemma   Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:45 pm

Ruadhan wrote:
Trotsky helped form the soviet union. The Soviet Union was on the right path until stalin came in. Also the soviet union should be defended for being a workers state which is critical in the formation of socialism. You have to remember that they were being invaded by 14 imperialist nations during its creation

It was more of a degenerated workers state than a pure workers state, it had its perks but the true face of it (During Stalin, of course) was that the workers were oppressed, as the kulaks were eliminated or exiled.

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PostSubject: Re: Sovietism: A symbolic dilemma   Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:49 pm

he means the USSR upon formation until stalin screwed with it =P
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PostSubject: Re: Sovietism: A symbolic dilemma   Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:55 pm

Oh, sorry.

But still, all goes back to Stalin doesn't it. Sad

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PostSubject: Re: Sovietism: A symbolic dilemma   Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:05 pm

Agreed, leftist are far to enthusiastic about Soviet symbols, imagery etc for my liking, some even when they aren't specifically 'leninist'.
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PostSubject: Re: Sovietism: A symbolic dilemma   Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:38 am

Stalin shouldn't be in the banner for this site it's downright insulting to most real Marxists.
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PostSubject: Re: Sovietism: A symbolic dilemma   Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:39 am

Well we have stalinist members. it is supposed to represent those groups which we have. i dont like him and most others dont but some here do
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PostSubject: Re: Sovietism: A symbolic dilemma   Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:56 am

Zapata420 wrote:
Stalin shouldn't be in the banner for this site it's downright insulting to most real Marxists.

tbh I thought about it...

I might make a moar epic banner excluding them...
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axcept green or die!
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PostSubject: Re: Sovietism: A symbolic dilemma   Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:34 pm

i opoese stalin as do al rele marrxcists. i suport soviets as do al rele marxists. soviets just menes democracy of the workers. the 'soviet unioen" wasnt rely soviets. wel it was but tehy had no pouer. only stalin did.
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Shabazz Freeman
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PostSubject: Re: Sovietism: A symbolic dilemma   Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:36 pm

axcept green or die! wrote:
i opoese stalin as do al rele marrxcists. i suport soviets as do al rele marxists. soviets just menes democracy of the workers. the 'soviet unioen" wasnt rely soviets. wel it was but tehy had no pouer. only stalin did.

rather, he purged the soviet system and turned it into his own instrument of oppression...
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axcept green or die!
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PostSubject: Re: Sovietism: A symbolic dilemma   Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:38 pm

teh bolsheviks pwned teh soviets. thts whie bolskeviks suck ass.
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PostSubject: Re: Sovietism: A symbolic dilemma   Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:41 pm

axcept green or die! wrote:
teh bolsheviks pwned teh soviets. thts whie bolskeviks suck ass.

What the hell are you talking about? The Bolsheviks waited and democratically debated with the soviets until they won the approval of the workers and the majority of the soviets before the revolution!

STALIN purged the bolsheviks of the left opposition so that he could rule the political domain of USSR!
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PostSubject: Re: Sovietism: A symbolic dilemma   Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:43 pm

wat is your hell talking? teh bolshies domenated teh soviets. tehy caled for soviets without bolshies. tehy said hel no fuck you and pwned them.
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Shabazz Freeman
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PostSubject: Re: Sovietism: A symbolic dilemma   Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:59 pm

axcept green or die! wrote:
wat is your hell talking? teh bolshies domenated teh soviets. tehy caled for soviets without bolshies. tehy said hel no fuck you and pwned them.

they slowly fought to democratically win the majority of soviets. After the revolution, many social democrats and opponents of the revolution criticized the following workers' state for not including the bourgeoisie...

are you defending the bourgeoisie's right to contribute even after socialist revolution?
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PostSubject: Re: Sovietism: A symbolic dilemma   Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:02 pm

no. bourgeoises dont get voatses. butthey efectively had a dictatereship of lenin and than stalin.
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PostSubject: Re: Sovietism: A symbolic dilemma   Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:06 pm

and now this is totally unbacked
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