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 Obama and the US Elections

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KGB5097
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PostSubject: Obama and the US Elections   Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:22 pm

Hello everyone, My name is Shane. This is my first post here.

I'd like to open up a discussion about the upcoming US elections for Comrades of voting age... although input from people outside this criteria is also appreciated. As Marxists I'm sure we all accept the fact that our 2-party dictatorship can never produce any change or deviation from its design, that is, it can never bring anyone but members of the bourgeoisie into any position of power or influence.

In past elections in my lifetime (I'm 19 so this is admittedly not many) I've observed the left abstaining from the vote, either declaring all choices invalid (I.E. both choices are shit) or declaring the election itself invalid. The idea that 'your vote means nothing' has been reinforced especially by the past 2 elections in which the popular vote literally meant nothing. Comrades of mine are currently declaring they will not be participating, some claiming you make a bigger stand by abstaining.

I consider this non participation a HUGE mistake on part of the left in this country.

All things considered, the elections ARE indeed bullshit. This does not mean, however, that they should be ignored. A good example of why abstaining is an idiotic move (and makes no stand against anything, really) is the events which have occurred during Chavez's rule in Venezuela. His opposition abstained, declaring the elections a fraud... and Chavez won by a landslide. Nobody considers the elections there contested (outside of the opposition) because, in reality, the numbers add up and Chavez won by a landslide. The 'stand' made against Chavez totally backfired, IMO.

To sum that point up abstaining just makes it easier for the opposing majority to elect whom it wants, in our case the opposition majority being the far right.

While in Venezuela the election perhaps means something, here it seems it doesn't. Our choice is usually between 2 members of the ruling class with a patchwork of varying policies and ideals. Most of the time, its honestly not worth the effort (Ex. the Clinton years). This time, however, we are fortunate enough to see a Democratic politician as the front runner who if elected will not only try to end this damned war (as opposed to oppositions wish of a century long occupation and a possible draft) but will severely piss off the ruling class if elected. This alone, IMO, is enough for me to spare 5 minutes in November.

Granted, Obama is likely another bullshit politician who will change nothing. More than likely at best he's just the lesser of 2 evils. The other evil, however, is quite a bit more dangerous... the continuation of our total war in the Middle East endangers us all and any chance at getting us out of that quagmire should be taken. If elected, McCain will surely embed us deeper. Obama, however... has potential for ending this, at least.

My final point is this: Remember the last 2 elections? Didn't that shit suck? Wouldn't Gore have been a better president, at least based on his environmentalism? Perhaps a few more votes going his way would've made it too hard to rig the elections... and avoided tens of thousands of deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq. Abstaining in the last 2 elections was a huge mistake I think, and abstaining in this one will be just as bad.

So please, take a few minutes, register to vote and cast in November. I'm registered as a Communist... I get some very amusing looks from that ^_^
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Riddler
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PostSubject: Re: Obama and the US Elections   Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:35 pm

Obama is the most "human-like" candidate Very Happy He doesn't looks like the capitalist maniacs, such as Bush or Hilary. That's my opinion.
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KGB5097
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PostSubject: Re: Obama and the US Elections   Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:45 pm

True enough. He is quite... interesting, as is his wife. Some people he associated with in the past are also interesting... in a very good way.

Not interesting enough for me to go campaigning for him, but interesting enough for me to try and talk some Comrades into voting.
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solpacvoicis
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PostSubject: Re: Obama and the US Elections   Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:15 pm

lol, way i see it, obama is a win-win vote:

1. Obama ends up sucking and continues the war (i.e. he does nothing!):

the result: well, people have had it up to *gestures way above head* HERE with the government, and there is the potential for riot, unrest, and possible revolution (though that's a stretch in the u.s.)

2. Obama ends up doing good, ends the war, etc....:

the result: well, hey, that's one less war to put up with!

too bad i'm 16 lol
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KGB5097
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PostSubject: Re: Obama and the US Elections   Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:23 pm

Even if he does suck and indeed the vote means nothing... at least we tried! Theres no excuse for not trying, especially when its so damned easy to try in this case...
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solpacvoicis
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PostSubject: Re: Obama and the US Elections   Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:26 pm

lol, true dat - i mean, even if you are gonna be all "we shouldn't vote", then the least you can do is burn down where they are having the ballots - actually SHOW that you are resisting, because passive resistance, is passively ignored =P
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SicSemperTryannis
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PostSubject: Re: Obama and the US Elections   Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:05 pm

Back in '06, I wanted Feingold to run, but then he abandoned those ideas.
Then I backed Kucinich, because Kucinich is the man. He is, on a global scale, a Moderate Social Democrat, which, for this country, is considered extreme, but to me it's good. But that guy is unelectable.
I've read The Audacity of Hope and Dreams From My Father, and I think Obama is alright.
Not great, but alright.
He was the most progressive yet most electable guy we had running.
But he needs to cut the "hope" rhetoric; he does have a clear platform, you just need to cut through the excess fat in his speeches to find it. Eloquence only goes so far.
I suggest reading Audacity, as it sheds a lot of light on his standings.

But maybe he's just a reactionary. I don't know.

I'll vote for him anyway, because, even though my vote is relatively insignificant, I would do anything in my power to keep McCain out of office.
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solpacvoicis
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PostSubject: Re: Obama and the US Elections   Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:08 pm

yay! more votes for obama! bwahahaha, the forced checkmate on the bourgeois is upon them! (even though they never play by the rules, its fun to pretend they do just for a little...)
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KGB5097
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PostSubject: Re: Obama and the US Elections   Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:24 pm

Part of me just thinks the reaction of middle America to a black president will be funny to watch. Just a small part Razz
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solpacvoicis
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PostSubject: Re: Obama and the US Elections   Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:26 pm

lmao, that would be verrry amusing ^_^ i don't really know his stance on affirmative action, does he want to expand it or just preserve it? also he mentions educational reform, does this mean pumping more money into the education system and reevaluating the structure of the bureaucracy?
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KGB5097
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PostSubject: Re: Obama and the US Elections   Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:51 pm

HOPEFULLY educational reform means "burn the schools/school administrators and start over". I went to an inner city public school, before the days of 'zero tolerance'. Crap I experienced in school now results in lawsuits in most of the country... problem is its still the same school administrators mismanaging everything.
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solpacvoicis
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PostSubject: Re: Obama and the US Elections   Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:10 pm

lmao, hopefully - i'd like to see schools treated as a place where children are raised in a representative environment of a purely democratic state, as opposed to a gulag as it is now o.o;;
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KGB5097
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PostSubject: Re: Obama and the US Elections   Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:29 pm

If they would just treat them as SCHOOLS I'd be happy... currently they're just pens to keep children in during the day.
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solpacvoicis
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PostSubject: Re: Obama and the US Elections   Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:32 pm

lololol true dat =D except in metuchen, cause its soo small, kids can get away with organizing clubs and such - i want to join the newspaper club next year and do a series on communism with the teachers permission (they all know me as the school's only commie XD)
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PostSubject: Re: Obama and the US Elections   Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:16 pm

solpacvoicis wrote:
lmao, that would be verrry amusing ^_^ i don't really know his stance on affirmative action, does he want to expand it or just preserve it? also he mentions educational reform, does this mean pumping more money into the education system and reevaluating the structure of the bureaucracy?

HAHA he wants to get rid of it. lolz

I will not be voting for a capitalist candidate ever. By voting you are only making it seem ok for the proletariat to live under these conditions. You are only prolonging the revolution by doing this.
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calinis
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PostSubject: Re: Obama and the US Elections   Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:38 am

revolution isn't going to happen thankfully
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Sin
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PostSubject: Re: Obama and the US Elections   Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:39 am

In US, i highly doubt it, until we get to depression state at least

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calinis
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PostSubject: Re: Obama and the US Elections   Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:47 am

its unlikely an economic depression will happen, if a revolution does take place, i'd go move before i have to live under communism.
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solpacvoicis
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PostSubject: Re: Obama and the US Elections   Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:49 am

but you live in canada o.o;; and where would you go to escape from the economic collapse of the u.s.? china? lol
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PostSubject: Re: Obama and the US Elections   Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:50 am

There is an interesting theory that during the revolution america will be last. and that the world will be revolting against america
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Sin
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PostSubject: Re: Obama and the US Elections   Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:50 am

Look at the charts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt

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enviro
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PostSubject: Re: Obama and the US Elections   Tue Jul 08, 2008 5:57 am

this is to the first post or fourth

and Three

obama was endorsed by oprah so we just have ti vite, the great oprah tells us to. i think obama is a puppet for oprahs desires
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Stos
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PostSubject: Re: Obama and the US Elections   Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:46 am

I like Bill Hicks' metaphor for the US elections. There are two puppets, one on the left, one on the right, but they're both being held by the same people. If anything, I would vote for the Socialist Party USA candidate. The party's not perfect, certainly, but at least if they get enough votes, more leftist parties will spring up, and bring socialism to the attention of the public. As it is, I'd say that most people believe that communism is what went on in Soviet Russia.
There isn't much chance for a socialist revolution in the US, democratic or otherwise, until the Democrats and Republicans are dethroned.
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KGB5097
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PostSubject: Re: Obama and the US Elections   Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:58 pm

Unfortunately a 3rd party cannot win. 2-party dictatorship, get used to it.

SPUSA is cool, SWP is cooler.
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PostSubject: Re: Obama and the US Elections   Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:46 pm

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/34651

Please do not vote for obama
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