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 Historical Proof of Religion

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Periodic
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PostSubject: Historical Proof of Religion   Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:03 am

Their is none. Considering, their are several books, supposeably written by God/Allah etc, like Qur'an and the Bible, these could have been written by anyone!

I see Religion, as some sort of Capitalist means to hold power, and to tell people, "Do good, so you go to heaven, and so you don't break our rules." Considering Religion and Government are not suppose to be intertwined in Democracy, why does the anthem have "One nation under God" and so many flags, are Zionist or Christian?

So, this is more-so-ever a question, to religious members, why do you follow it, what are your motives? Is it because you are afraid that if you don't you will go to hell? I was a Catholic for around a year, because i was scared, not any more, of course.
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PostSubject: Re: Historical Proof of Religion   Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:09 am

Haha we have a member whose name is calinis who says that if you are anti-isreal you are racist and hate god or some shit.
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solpacvoicis
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PostSubject: Re: Historical Proof of Religion   Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:12 am

lol, um, actually, a lot of people follow various religions for different reasons...

true there is no historical basis for it, the people who believe in THAT are simply desperate...

islam is a religion that is meant to be updated - its supposed to be the paramount of moral order, human law, and science itself...i see it that way, anyway, and a lot of people DO argue about what should be added or taken out of the qur'an quite seriously...

christianity is often followed because of its passages devoted to peace, not just because of fear!

eastern religions are often based on being at one with yourself, and there is nothing wrong with that!

hinduism and judaism are both not just religions, but entire cultures, entire codes of conduct that come out of hundreds or thousands of years of social learning...

don't dismiss religion so readily!
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PostSubject: Re: Historical Proof of Religion   Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:16 am

I dismiss religion completly. however i dont think you can call things like buddhism and confucisim religions. but more as a way of life.
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solpacvoicis
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PostSubject: Re: Historical Proof of Religion   Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:18 am

oh believe me, they are religions =]

actually, marxism is a mix of both economic theory and taoist philosophy, so be forgiving to religious people - not all of them are bad, and religions, are, in fact, neutral afterall...

its what people do with them, that's what counts....

(and thus, religions are a lot like guns...LOL)
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PostSubject: Re: Historical Proof of Religion   Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:24 am

No they arnt religions, they promiss nothing of afterlife and no holy beings. They are no more religion than being a vegetarianism is a realigion
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Periodic
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PostSubject: Re: Historical Proof of Religion   Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:56 am

Ruadhan wrote:
No they arnt religions, they promiss nothing of afterlife and no holy beings. They are no more religion than being a vegetarianism is a realigion

Lol, you do make good points here, i must admit that.
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SicSemperTryannis
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PostSubject: Re: Historical Proof of Religion   Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:27 am

As an Atheist, or rather as someone who really could care less about religion, the only "religions" I can ever see myself joining are Confucianism or Unitarian Universalism, but only because there's little-to-no spirituality involved in them. But I don't think that this discredits either one of them as being any less of a "religion". I feel that the term is very difficult to define.

I have also done some reading on Taoism. It's pretty good, in principle, except for the whole, y'know, eternal Tao thing.
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solpacvoicis
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PostSubject: Re: Historical Proof of Religion   Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:51 am

dictionary.com wrote:
religion -noun - a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

says nothing about an afterlife, no need for a god, its just a set of beliefs which includes an explanation for creation and the purpose of the universe

vegetarianism doesn't have anything to do with creation, buddhism, hinduism, and i'm sure taoism, does
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PostSubject: Re: Historical Proof of Religion   Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:41 am

Siddhartha said nothing of how the universe was made, he just taught a way of living without suffrage. how does that make it a religion
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solpacvoicis
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PostSubject: Re: Historical Proof of Religion   Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:19 pm

o.o philosophies become religions when they become rigidly defined.....right? at least that's how i think of it - buddhism etc are defined as religions by the people who practice them, right? if they don't then it may be just a philosophy....
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PostSubject: Re: Historical Proof of Religion   Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:17 pm

What's the relation between religion and capitalism? Religion existed from the earliest days of humanity, while capitalism (marxist definition) appeared in the 18-th century.
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solpacvoicis
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PostSubject: Re: Historical Proof of Religion   Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:46 pm

yep, religions are part of culture =D whether or not they are helpful/beneficial is up to the individual - its only when religion tries to gain power that people need to intervene
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PostSubject: Re: Historical Proof of Religion   Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:32 pm

More often, it's someone tries to use the religion to gain power, like the Crusaders. But it's not the fault of the religion, of course.
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solpacvoicis
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PostSubject: Re: Historical Proof of Religion   Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:18 pm

yeppers, its like a weapon - perfectly neutral on its own, but if someone picks it up - watch out! =D
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PostSubject: Re: Historical Proof of Religion   Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:36 pm

I wrote a paper some years back explaining the connection between Christianity and Marxism... in fact, the Marxist ideology has its roots in the Old Testament... Marx had it memorized.

Religion is an outdated aspect of human culture, something we are currently evolving past, but something that we can learn from... the last few thousand years of the beliefs of our ancestors should not be totally discounted. Thats not to say we must cower in fear of the sun or give money to an invisible man in the sky...

I'm most likely the most rabid Atheist among us, actually. I have a bit of a personal vendetta against religion and the church actually... but even I recognize the historical value of religion. Thats all it is though, historical value. Period.
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PostSubject: Re: Historical Proof of Religion   Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:05 pm

KGB5097 wrote:
I have a bit of a personal vendetta against religion and the church actually

I don't really have a issue with the church, i think they do spread peace threw minds and heart(well some more than others, obviously)

Don't get me wrong, i deny all religions, but i'll let the church keep going as long as it doesn't start getting in the government. (As it already has in NorthAmerica...)

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solpacvoicis
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PostSubject: Re: Historical Proof of Religion   Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:07 pm

i recognize the culture value and its value in the lives of others (no matter how unnecessary that value is)

i too have a vendetta against religion, especially christianity.....not christians....christianity as a whole...

conservatism in all forms bothers me more though ^_^;;
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PostSubject: Re: Historical Proof of Religion   Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:42 pm

solpacvoicis wrote:
i too have a vendetta against religion, especially christianity.....not christians....christianity as a whole...

What do you mean exactly? Christians are fine, but you disagree with the religion, or you are actively against it?

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PostSubject: Re: Historical Proof of Religion   Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:45 pm

Your name is 'Sin'. I'd assume you were quite opposed to religious values haha....

Christianity as a whole has a violent and bloody past filled with injustice and oppression... when the fundamentals have not changed its hard to accept the ideology. When the fundamentalists pretty much say out loud they wish for a return to the dark ages (they must think that means something other than TERRIBLE, HORRIBLE TIME) it just makes me want to slap them into oblivion.
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solpacvoicis
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PostSubject: Re: Historical Proof of Religion   Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:00 pm

...religion helped to obliterate my father's life. he was in a black hole ever since my mom divorced him, and was looking for someone to blame, so he blamed muslims. my mom told him to talk to the priest at our church because of this. you know what the priest did? HE FUCKING TOLD HIM HE WAS RIGHT THAT ALL MUSLIMS ARE TERRORISTS!!!

that's why i have NO TOLERANCE for calinis' racist statements against muslims, and why i have a very personal vendetta against religion, which FAILED my father.
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PostSubject: Re: Historical Proof of Religion   Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:52 pm

I have had some serious problems with religion in my past also..but i just cannot say to myself i hate it.My sincerest apologies to you and your father, Solpac.

Almost all religions have some type of bloody past..i can't deny that very well.

I just don't really understand why religions have people walk around to houses and preach, yesturday i was standing at the door for a half hour debating with a Christian that only could say "you must have faith" in response. Sad

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PostSubject: Re: Historical Proof of Religion   Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:05 pm

well, maybe hate is a strong word, i definitely strongly resent it - here i was defending all religions, afterall, i can't hate it SO much =/

thanks for the sympathy.

lol, i can't deny that i would have so much fun in a religious debate =D i'd end up turning it political too!
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PostSubject: Re: Historical Proof of Religion   Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:32 pm

I agree historically it is useful but when practiced they almost force ignorance upon people.

Also ask any true buddhist and they will say it is not a religion. Ask a tibetin buddhist or other buddhist who practice it while incorporating there old faith and they will say it is. if you just read what he said it is not a religion
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solpacvoicis
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PostSubject: Re: Historical Proof of Religion   Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:59 pm

alright, so buddhism is the philosophy out all of them =/ sorry
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