this site is odd

is a joke right?

Lenin and the Red Terror

Following the assassination attempt on Lenin and the successful assassination of Petrograd chief of secret police Moisei Uritsky, Stalin, in a telegram to Lenin, argued that a policy of “open and systematic mass terror” be instigated against “those responsible”. Lenin and the other Bolsheviks agreed, and instructed Felix Dzerzhinsky, whom Lenin had appointed to head the Cheka in 1917, to commence a “Red Terror”, which was officially announced to the public on September 1, 1918, by the Bolshevik newspaper, Krasnaya Gazeta.[36] Suspected enemies could expect brutal torture, flogging, maiming or execution. Some were shot, others drowned, buried alive, or hacked to death by swords. Quite often those about to be executed were forced to dig their own graves.[37] The only published Soviet statistics regarding Cheka executions are the semi-official ones provided by the Chekist Martin Latsis, limited to RSFSR over the period 1918–1920, giving the grand total of 12,733 executed, including 3,082 for taking part in rebellions, 2,024 for membership of counter-revolutionary organizations, 643 for gangsterism, 455 for incitement to revolution, 206 for corruption, 102 for desertion and the same number for espionage.[38] These statistics are considered by many scholars to be decidedly understated, as they did not embrace Ukraine or the Crimea.[39] In the latter the Bolsheviks slaughtered an estimated 50,000 people after White forces withdrew in 1920.[37] Some historians estimate that between 1917 and 1922 up to 280,000 people were killed by the Chekas, of which about half perished through summary executions and the other half through the suppression of rebellions (e.g. Tambov Rebellion).[40] Orlando Figes goes so far as to assert that it is possible more people were killed by the Cheka than died in battle.[41] During the Civil War, atrocities were carried out by both Reds and Whites.[42]

According to the Black Book of Communism, in May 1919 there were 16,000 people in labor camps based on the old Tsarist katorga labor camps, and in September 1921 there were more than 70,000.[43] Lenin's Hanging Order documents that Lenin himself ordered terror on 11th August 1918 .[44]

According to Orlando Figes, Lenin had always been an advocate of “mass terror against enemies of the revolution” and was open about his view that the proletarian state was a system of organized violence against the capitalist establishment. Figes also claims that the terror, while encouraged by the Bolsheviks, had its roots in a popular anger against the privileged.[45] When Kamenev and Bukharin tried to curb the “excesses” of the Cheka in late 1918, it was Lenin who defended it.[46] Lenin remained an advocate of mass terror. In a letter of March 19, 1922, to Molotov and the members of the Politburo, following an uprising by the clergy in the town of Shuia, Lenin outlined a brutal plan of action against the clergy and their followers, who were defying the government decree to remove church valuables: “We must (…) put down all resistance with such brutality that they will not forget it for several decades. (…) The greater the number of representatives of the reactionary clergy and reactionary bourgeoisie we succeed in executing (…) the better.”[47] According to Church records, 2,691 priests, 1,962 monks and 3,447 nuns were killed that year.[48]

Lenin also signed off on lists of people to be executed. For example, in September 1918, 25 former tsarist ministers and high civil servants along with 765 so-called White Guards were shot in Moscow. Lenin personally signed the execution lists.[49]

and you have a picture of lenin?

he was the father of the revolution, adn with out him, marxism would not be famous, so shut up

but he killed so many

yeah, so did jackson, and he was the father of jacksonian democracy (all "commoners" should vote)

napoleon was a famous emperor for france, and he spread war throughout europe.

FDR is one of the u.s.'s most beloved presidents - and he locked up some hundred thousand japanese citizens in internment camps.

my point - famous leaders do AWFUL things, that doesn't make them less important.

dosen't matter that othere pepole killed also that dosen't make it right.

example: Bam( I kill someone) man comes up to me and ask: why did you do that?
I repley: oh othere pepole have killled much more.....

no, that's not the argument i was trying to make, read the "my point" part, at the end there.

i was just saying that there a lots of people that millions revere for their good points.

its kinda like...okay, here's a fairly bad example, but follow me on this:

hitler.

he killed millions, launched a war against the world, and no one can truly justify his actions. they can explain WHY he did what he did, they can SAY what they want, but nothing truly justifies it.

at the same time - prejudice against jews was rampant throughout the world. its arguable that if hitler didn't bring this to a head with attempted genocide, that people would've kept going at it like hating one group of people was perfectly okay.

doesn't mean hitler was a good guy, just meant that, despite what he meant to do, he happened to do a favor for the world.

yes people like an evil dictator? dont know why. and solpacvoicis, what a great response! however i wouldnt have wanted the holocaust to happen, it was horrible.

and also i would have been killed by lenin, because i oppos communism.

Soviet Communism is not something any of us wish to repeat or recreate. Usage of the red terror against Communists in the 21st century is equatable to usage of the Boston massacre against Britain in modern geopolitics.

Lenin was important due to his contributions to Marxist in the form of the theory of Imperialism. His role in the creation of the Soviet Union has nothing to do with this.

i'm just wondering why you would admire such a figure...as evident on this site....

Adam Smith (founding father of capitalist economics) was a womanizing alcoholic who, if I remember right, had sex with his sister.

None of this influences his writings.

Either accept the fact that an individuals writings and actions are 2 different topics, abandon Capitalism and retain your current position or pay your sister for sex.

capitalism is the only way the economy can work. capitalism does not create injustices -it's a bloody economic system. however, communism does because it's whole structure calls out corruption (as evident from history).

ahh, yes, because i forgot the total absence of corruption from capitalism! -_- (i'll leave the argument at that for now...*sigh*)

No, the soviet state in the beginning before lenin was good. Also in communism there is no market. So of course it wont work lol

Ruadhan wrote:

No, the soviet state in the beginning before lenin was good. Also in communism there is no market. So of course it wont work lol

umm there was NO state before lenin.

there was, but only for a short period of time. it fell out of favor becuase it decided to stay in the war

enviro wrote:

there was, but only for a short period of time. it fell out of favor becuase it decided to stay in the war

the provisional government was bourgeois

so there really wasn't a workers' state before lenin and the bolsheviks

the october revolution created the first

mattabesta wrote:

Ruadhan wrote:

No, the soviet state in the beginning before lenin was good. Also in communism there is no market. So of course it wont work lol

umm there was NO state before lenin.

LOL i totally ment to say stalin. my bad